The Affirmative Action Hoax
By • 8/8/08 |
Buy The Affirmative Action Hoax from Amazon. |
Steven Farron’s The Affirmative Action Hoax is, to my knowledge, the most thorough and uncompromising exposé of affirmative action in higher education. As many other writers have done, he provides copious evidence that universities discriminate against whites on a massive scale. However, unlike most critics of racial preferences, Farron examines his subject from a race realist perspective that acknowledges the reality of biological differences in intelligence among the races. This perspective enables him to see clearly how flimsy all the arguments commonly made in favor of affirmative action are. Farron also recognizes that the dogma of racial equality that underlies affirmative action inevitably leads to the corruption of academic standards.
Farron proves through countless examples that affirmative action university admittees have been far below the white standard for decades:
- In 1989, black applicants who were admitted to selective colleges scored 350 points lower on the SATs than white admittees did.1
- In 1996, the University of California at Berkeley Law School accepted every black applicant with an undergraduate GPA of 3.25 and a Law School Admission Test (LSAT) score in the 70th percentile but rejected all white and Asian applicants with the same scores.2
- In 2001, the average SAT score of Hispanics who were admitted to UCLA was lower than the average score of whites who were rejected.3
- Similarly, for decades the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) scores of minorities who are admitted to American medical schools have been lower than those of whites who were rejected.4
- Blacks and Hispanics receive 80 percent of merit scholarships—that is, scholarships supposedly awarded on the basis of talent rather than need—at the University of Michigan, despite the fact that they have much lower test scores and grades than whites and Asians.5
Farron directs devastating criticism against the claim that affirmative action is necessary to compensate for the disadvantages suffered by American minorities, such as poverty and past discrimination. First of all, the beneficiaries of racial preferences are not poor or disadvantaged in any other respect. All studies of the subject have shown that the large majority of affirmative action admittees to universities come from middle and upper-class households.6
Furthermore, minority students do not underperform in school and on tests because of poverty, but because blacks are on average much less intelligent than whites. In fact, the average IQ of whites in the bottom half of the American income range is about eight points higher than the IQ of blacks in the top half.7 Poor whites score better on standardized tests than wealthy blacks. In 2002, the average math SAT score of whites whose parents earned less than $10,000 was 497, but the average score of blacks whose parents earned $100,000 or more was 490. LSAT scores show the same pattern.8
Some defenders of affirmative action argue that blacks underperform in high school due to low self-esteem. However, the clear conclusion of studies on this subject is that black teenagers have significantly higher self-esteem than whites. The Washington, DC school population is more heavily black than that of any state, and it also scores worse on standardized tests. Yet the students there are more likely to answer yes to the statement “I am good at mathematics” than students in any state.9
Universities are under pressure not only to admit, but also to graduate, large numbers of minorities. Indeed, in some cases, universities that do not graduate specified quotas of minorities are denied federal funding or accreditation.10 The compulsion to graduate unqualified applicants inevitably lowers academic standards.
Dr. Bernard Davis, a faculty member at Harvard Medical School, exposed this travesty in 1975. Affirmative action resulted in the admission of black medical students who were far below the usual standard for Harvard, which is, of course, one of the most selective schools in America. The average MCAT score of black admittees was in the mid-400s, which was lower than the average score of white applicants who were rejected by all medical schools in the country.
Naturally, these students fared poorly, but the school hid the disparities by lowering its standards. Harvard replaced the usual letter grades with a pass/fail system to obscure differences in student performance. Also, the medical school began offering repeat examinations for students who failed courses and lowered exam standards. Even worse, Harvard devalued its medical degree. Whereas previously Harvard had required that degree recipients do much better than the minimum national standard on standardized tests for medical students, the school began granting its degrees to all students who performed at the minimum level or above.
However, even this was not enough to guarantee passage of black students. In 1975, the dean of the medical school granted a degree to a black student who had failed to meet the minimum national requirement on standardized tests after having taken them five times. The indignant Davis made the whole mess public. In recompense for his bravery, students picketed his office, and he was denied promotion.11
The lowering of standards is responsible for the colossal grade inflation that has taken place at American universities in the past 40 years. In 2003 about half of students at the nation’s top colleges received A’s. As Harvard professor Harvey Mansfield explains:
in the late 60’s and early 70’s, white professors, imbibing the spirit of affirmative action, stopped giving low or average grades to black students and, to justify or conceal it, stopped giving those grades to white students as well.
The affirmative action travesty persists because of the willingness of university administrators and the media to deceive the public. One tactic is to simply to deny that racial preferences exist. Up until 1996, the University of Michigan administration would tell anyone who asked that they simply did not take race into account in admissions. Then a professor forced the university to disclose its admissions records through a Freedom of Information Act request, and it turned out that standards for black admittees were far below those for whites and Asians.12
A more common lie is that race gives applicants only a slight edge. The dean of Berkeley’s law school told a reporter in 1995 that race only comes into play when admissions committees must choose between two applicants with the same qualifications. When the law school was forced to disclose its admissions records, the enormous disparities quoted at the beginning of the article were revealed.13 Farron shows through many examples that the news media can be counted on to parrot the lies of university administrators, repeating discredited denials of racial preferences without looking into the facts.14
The Affirmative Action Hoax takes on many other myths concocted by the academic elites and their media minions to defend racial preferences. If you’re mad at what Farron labels “the vicious anti-white discrimination that has pervaded American society since the 1960s,”15 then this book is for you.
Steven Farron has put up a website to supplement his book here.
- Steven Farron, The Affirmative Action Hoax: Diversity, the Importance of Character and Other Lies (Santa Ana, CA: Seven Locks Press, 2005), 161. ↑
- Ibid., 167. ↑
- Ibid., 57. ↑
- Ibid., 135. ↑
- Ibid., 165. ↑
- Ibid., 75. ↑
- Ibid., 75. ↑
- Ibid., 80-82. ↑
- Ibid., 89. ↑
- Ibid., 125. ↑
- Ibid., 135-42. ↑
- Ibid., 165. ↑
- Ibid., 167. ↑
- Ibid., 171-76. ↑
- Ibid., xv. ↑
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What does it take to peel off the layer upon layer of lies to get to the truth?
How true this statement is:”the news media can be counted on to parrot the lies of university administrators, repeating discredited denials of racial preferences without looking into the facts.” It’s like living in a soft version of Orwell’s 1984.
To any unconvinced reader who should stumble across this article, out there in cyberspace, and who feels somehow guilty or sinful for questioning “affirmative action”, ask yourself this: Does God support a system of cowardly, corrupt lies that exists to enforce thievery, injustice and oppression?
Farron does have some rather extreme beliefs. He honestly believes IQ is 100% genetic.
“In 1989, black applicants who were admitted to selective colleges scored 350 points lower on the SATs than white admittees did.”
I’m not a behavioural psychologist, but doesn’t this mean those blacks have average IQs 25-30 points lower than the average IQs of white admittees?
To support this article, I recall a number of conversations with physicians who attended various US medical schools and although anectdotal, were revealing . For example , UT Galveston School of Medicine reserved 25-35 spaces in each class for blacks. According to a white graduate of that school ,every single black male had to repeat 2 years of medical school. In US medical schools repeating 2 years because of failing the academic year 2 seperate times is the maximum allowed before someone is dismissed without an MD. US medical schools are under extreme pressure not to have high failure rates of minorities. Therefore, medical schools after having unqualified minorities “complete” a four year curriculum in 6 years, were almost compelled to give degrees to all of the minorities, when obviously a good percentage didn’t meet the minimum qualifications. Another interesting fact is a number of blacks who supposedly were admitted because they suffered from the “legacy of slavery and Jim Crow” were not even American citizens. I also heard stories of blacks who couldn’t cut it in the more important 3rd and 4th years of med school but were “excused” from the standards other students had to meet. I had a black physician tell me when he seriously considered dropping out of medical school because of difficulties in the 3rd year (which is the single most important year), his school excused him. The third year of med schools consists of performance in non classroom settings i.e. 90% hospital and 10% outpatient clinics along with a few hours of classroom lectures.There are, depending on the med school, 5 to 7 required clerkships in the major specialties. If a student can’t pass the third year, it reflects very negatively on their ability to become a competent physician. The black physician was “excused” from passing a 3 month required clerkship by having him basically sit and observe the office practice of a black doctor for 3 months which isn’t even close to what a third year clerkship requires. Another story I heard from several different white physicians was about a black female who could not pass the required 3rd year clerkship in surgery. She was then “excused” from passing the surgery clerkship because she allegedly had (I’m not making this up) an allergy to rubber gloves used by surgeons.I can go on I’ve made my point. Most of the white physicians who releated these stories were far from being conservatives politically.
There’s a lot of discussion of this article on its digg page.
While you there, remember to digg the article. Let’s go for a record on this one!
Why is digg page important? Correct me if wrong, but all the stories with top “Diggs” numbers are ultra-left wing ala Huffington (Com)Post.
That’s true, but there’s a minority of more sensible diggers, who notice stories that get significant numbers of diggs and link to them on blogs and forums. Besides, a high number of diggs impresses newcomers to the site.
Excellent article.
Personally, I see lots of follies and inconsistencies in the logic of supporters of affirmative action. For example, AA-supporters claim that affirmative action is necessary to compensate for past wrongs. But if discrimination from generations ago is negatively affecting blacks’ academic performance today, why have other historically discriminated minority groups, such as Asians, perform well academically? The answer is that past discrimination is not to blame. The answer is innate differences.
Ok, I am a black female and I have to say if Blacks performed on the same level as whites, there would be no need for affirmative action. Its there for a reason… But since on average Blacks score considerably lower on standardized tests than whites, how do you suppose we get African Americans in medical school? Research shows that white doctors tend to practice in populations that are predominately white. So who is going to practice in the inner cities, underserved and disadvantaged communities?
Next, someone made a point about Asians performing well academically while they are considered a minority here in America as well as Blacks…so we should not use discrimination as an excuse. I agree, but not wholeheartedly. I do believe to some degree that “smarts” are genetic. How and why? I don’t know. But an Asian person can spend their entire life in America and still come out with a higher IQ than the average white.
I am not looking for a shoulder to cry on, but this is reality. This country a population of very diverse people and should be represented as such. Of course, not at the expense of giving a lousy doctor a license. But every effort should be made to train competent doctors of all races.
Nessa,
I would address these issues with a “let the chips fall where they may” policy. The government should try for equal opportunity not equal outcomes. How would this work out?
Blacks score considerably lower on standardized tests than whites, how do you suppose we get African Americans in medical school? There would be a smaller amount of African American doctors but at least everyone would respect them for having done it honestly, without any affirmative crutches.
Who is going to practice in the inner cities, underserved and disadvantaged communities? Sorry, but most people in these areas are horrible to be around. When they begin to appreciate those trying to help them then people will volunteer to provide assistance. No one wants to feed the mouth trying to bite them.
I do believe to some degree that “smarts” are genetic? Smarts are overrated. An awful lot can be accomplished through hard work, good morals, high ethics, and a positive can-do attitude. I would much rather live next to a person with these qualities than a smart guy.
But every effort should be made to train competent doctors of all races? No. Members of all races, if it is their desire, should make every effort to train, to become a competent doctor.
I value your opinion William, but its easier said than done.
Of course no one wants to “bite the hand that feeds them” but that does not justify ignoring the possibility of helping someone in need.
Yes,I believe every race should make an honest effort to train competent doctors. But honestly speaking, the Black race is behind, but who could blame us. We had to overcome alot of negativity and setbacks to get where we are today and we still have a long path ahead of us. American boasts “equal opportunity” but every American individual may not be on the same boat. So in the meantime, affirmative action is helping to move us along until we get to the point where it is not needed. But I also fear that affirmative action does not become a forever crutch…
“So in the meantime, affirmative action is helping to move us along until we get to the point where it is not needed. But I also fear that affirmative action does not become a forever crutch…”
I had no problem with affirmative-action as it was originally intended. It was originally intended to open opportunities for only those Blacks whom were descendants of slaves in order to help remedy past discrimination.
Here’s how it was meant to work: If two job applicants — one White, one Black — have equal qualifications, AA compelled the employer to choose the Black applicant. I don’t have too much of a problem with that.
But what acually happened, is the Left expanded AA to include every non-White racial group, plus all females.
Now it’s qualifications be damned!!!
In acually practice, AA is a quasi-quota-system where the only category of people that are not included as a protected minority are White males. AA blatantly functions as legal discrimination against White males; therefore, it is a racist/sexist policy by definition and should be abolished in it’s entirety.
Whites are worn out helping blacks. The more we do the more blacks dislike us. Being nice is a taken as a sign of weakness. There are multiple black organizations, schools, congressional caucuses, book sections and TV channels, lobbying groups, etc. Whites are not allowed to have any of these.
Look at our president and congress and you would think whites hold power. But these elected officials care nothing about us (whites) and are flooding our country with foreigners to get rid of us. Every group celebrates their ethnicity while whites are supposed to be colorless and exist just to help other groups.
To go to school we have to start way behind the starting line because of affirmative action. Is doesn’t matter how much poverty or struggles we have had to overcome. Our skin is not the right color. If we complain about any of this it is labeled “hate speech” or “racism”.
Our country is deeply in debt and in great distress. We can no longer afford to be social workers as we must become Workers again to become a productive nation again.
I am not trying to say “woe is me” but to explain why I no longer feel charitable.
“I told them the truth. They liked it or they didn’t like it. What had that to do with me?”
“In acually practice, AA is a quasi-quota-system where the only category of people that are not included as a protected minority are White males. AA blatantly functions as legal discrimination against White males; therefore, it is a racist/sexist policy by definition and should be abolished in it’s entirety.”
“Look at our president and congress and you would think whites hold power.”
Putting aside all opinions, lets look at the statistics. According to the US Census Bureau, in 2006 and 2007 white males made an average of about 10,000/yr. than white females. Whites (not Hispanic) made an average of 13,000 more than Blacks and 15,000 more than Hispanics, with Asians making as much as whites in 2006 and a little less in 2007.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/p60-235.pdf
With that, AA merely helps but obviously is not making any grave changes. Who really has the power? White males make more money on average than anyone else, but does not hold the power? Seems backwards. But how are we defining “power”? Numbers do not lie.
”Putting aside all opinions, lets look at the statistics. According to the US Census Bureau, in 2006 and 2007 white males made an average of about 10,000/yr. than white females. Whites (not Hispanic) made an average of 13,000 more than Blacks and 15,000 more than Hispanics, with Asians making as much as whites in 2006 and a little less in 2007.”
Nessa,
Can you possibly take into account that the average IQ of blacks is 85, as opposed to the average IQ of Whites is 100? Do those statistics have any impact on your reasoning as to why Whites, on average, have a higher per annam income than blacks?
Can you see the correlation?
Nessa,
So, if I make 13,000 more than you a year I hold the power?
How do I as an individual, using an additional 13,000 (probably 8,000 or less after taxes) to buy a house with a little more square footage or get a nicer car, enable me to hold the reins of power?
If I make more than you should I be discriminated against until the figures become equal?
If I make less than you should I be discriminated against because whites on average make more?
Why does this gap exist? How much does culture, IQ (you stated, I do believe to some degree that “smarts” are genetic), age, education, experience,content of character affect this figure?
Taryton, I see the correlation. But you referred to white males as being “legally discriminated” against as if AA is such a crime that those who support and practice this system should be put in jail. My reason for statistics is to show that they must not be hurting too much. In fact, white males are doing pretty well for themselves….
Frank, an average of 13,000 makes a huge, huge difference. It wouldn’t to someone making six figures a year, but it sure would to someone making less than 25,000 a year trying to support a family. After taxes on both incomes, the figure is relatively the same. Again define “power”. Someone with 14,000 more can definitely accomplish more than someone with just 1,000. Again it depends on how they decide to use this extra leverage….
Why does the gap exist? Well, when did it first open? The gap started when Whites owned just about everything and did not give Blacks the right to read or write. In fact we were punished for even trying. This gap spans over a century and a couple of decades and we are still trying to catch up. WE are still trying to close this gap. I believe environmental factors play a huge role. Some Blacks are still in the “slavery mindset”, not believing that hard work and dedication may actually take them somewhere. This attitude is depicted in the home, to the children and passed on to the next generation. But we as a race have to work together to do away with that mindset. And Whites simply can’t throw up their hands and say I’m done with it all without taking responsibility of their ancestors actions. Whether its through AA or some other type of support system, we all have to work together to do away with these rough disproportions. Yes there are many support systems out there by blacks, for blacks. But believe it or not, some of us are pretty fed up trying to help those who aren’t making any effort to change. But we must not give up because considerable progress has been made, you see it in the media everyday. OH YES, there is still hope, indeed! Oh, sorry got off track…
The average Black IQ is 85 compared to 100 for Whites today, but what was it decades ago? Progress has been made and I have faith that it will continue to increase. Genetics is genetics. There has been hints in research that intelligence is embedded in our genes. But upon my own personal research recently, there are no established scientific journals that support this evidence. Just ideas and proposals by some notable scientists. But who knows….its an unresolved issue.
Nessa wrote,
“Putting aside all opinions, lets look at the statistics. According to the US Census Bureau, in 2006 and 2007 white males made an average of about 10,000/yr. than white females. Whites (not Hispanic) made an average of 13,000 more than Blacks and 15,000 more than Hispanics, with Asians making as much as whites in 2006 and a little less in 2007.”
Owing to the rise of trade unions and the Federal government, wealth is no longer equivalent to power or political representation. Minority-dominated trade unions use their political action committees to contribute millions of dollars to political parties, while white businesses are forbidden to make any contributions. Rich minorities use their wealth to benefit and empower their own race, while rich whites allow their class interests to prevail over their racial obligations, and often have a taste for seclusion and invisibility. Finally, the average white person is considerably less wealthy than many other racial groups in the United States.
See John Galbraith, The Affluent Society, and also Wilmot Robertson, The Dispossessed Majority, for more information on this.
”My reason for statistics is to show that they must not be hurting too much. In fact, white males are doing pretty well for themselves….” (—Nessa)
Many white males are doing well, many are not.
IQ aside, the only variable that is directly proportional to the outcome of how “well” a person does in this country is how hard s/he works. Sure there are exceptions to that rule; however, generally speaking, hard work, in the post “civil rights” era, is the ‘tried and true’ method of achieving anything worthwhile, no?
Again, in general, blacks have earned a well deserved reputation for being work averse. That’s something black leadership needs to address. It’s too bad that most of the prominent leaders in the black community still preach the false doctrine that the majority of blacks depend on - that being: Black failure in all its forms can be traced to white racism. The truth is whites constantly sacrifice to help blacks but there is no reciprocity … quite the opposite.
IMO, the malignant sense of entitlement and victimhood that envelopes the black conscious needs to be purged before any real progress in race relations can take place. Actually, segregation is the best solution to the race problem.
SECRET MEMO TO FELLOW WHITES: Shhh! Don’t tell anyone, but I am passing along the secret to white’s making a higher income:
Study hard, work hard, save money, give up on short term pleasures for long term goals, wait until you are married to have kids, don’t do drugs, don’t commit crimes.
Some of the asian immigrants must have discovered these secret methods because they have begun using them to also obtain higher incomes.
Luckily most blacks have not yet discovered these methods. We can throw them off the trail by offering them “affirmative action” instead. If they ever happen to discover these secrets tell them that they will not work because of “the legacy of slavery”. For some reason even their own leaders are assisting us by telling them this also!
Such blatant racism. Racism—I define as placing a hierarchy on the races. In keeping with the thinking of said schmucks— whites are ‘inferior’ to Asians. I don’t believe that, but aforementioned comments suggest this. It’s all about culture folks—some embrace academics and some don’t as much for any number of reasons and you can see how this plays out in grades. These light-weight false-intellectuals have gone off the deep-end by contending that any race is inherently ‘smarter’ than the next- us sane folk tend to play down such trivial arguments.
This article makes some strong arguments against the pitfalls of of affirmative action. Affirmative-action is by no means a fair system, but hey that’s life deal with it and hush your whining because no one is seriously gonna be compelled by mediocre white students who can’t make the grade. History has done you middle-class white folks in and now you’re feeling the backlash-toughluck old chum. Mediocre-middle-class whites are starting to realize their white privilege was just a dream and the elite could care less about the current injustice exacted against them in the form of A/A—my friends, you’ve been bamboozled—welcome to the club idiot.
schmucks light-weight false-intellectuals gone off the deep-end hush your whining mediocre white students idiot
Whenever they begin name calling you can be sure that they have given up on facts. Since they have lost the debate they begin an argument. It is like playing chess and you are distracted for a second. When you look back your queen has been replaced by a checker.
Once I can hear a social scientist explain that their exists an ethnic or racial group that has undergone occupation, slavery, or restrictive movement for more than one hundred years which outperforms the occupier, slave owner, or capturer within the time span of a millenium then I will take that study seriously. The point is simple the long lasting deprivation of education reduces a group’s academic achievement potential. Need proof - look to the educational achievement of the top 50% of African students within countries that did not undergo more 100 year of colonization and you will discover that those students outperform Caucasian student in the United States in the same way that Asian students have.
“The point is simple the long lasting deprivation of education reduces a group’s academic achievement potential.”
How does “deprivation of education” affect any living black student? Per capita expenditure for black students is higher than on white students (and the expense is borne disproportionately by white people), they are lavished with every imaginable unearned perquisite (which travel under the rubric “affirmative action”), and every educational standard in the country is lowered just for them, yet they cannot compete. I’m afraid you assume the burden of proof here. For that matter you might consider explaining how every black pathology grows worse, not better, in inverse proportion to the energy and expense spent on ameliorating them, and why these pathologies grow worse the further we move away from slavery and the rest of it. This is special pleading.
“Need proof - look to the educational achievement of the top 50% of African students within countries that did not undergo more 100 year of colonization and you will discover that those students outperform Caucasian student in the United States in the same way that Asian students have.”
I defy you to prove this. In which non-colonized sub-Saharan African nations do students outscore American whites? From which sub-Saharan nations do immigrant blacks come who outperform whites? Verifiable data only.
Has anyone here ever considered that I.Q. scores may be negatively affected by a persons education? If a person has never encountered mid to lower-level algebra in their life, they are not likely to score well on any quiz involving it. Perhaps the reason these people are scoring lower on standardized tests is because they happen to be in a shitty school district, or have a teacher who just doesn’t like them, or maybe the class just didn’t get the concept they went over and some absurd government policy prevents the teacher from reteaching it (like in many districts in Texas), or they drop out of school to get a minimum wage job in order to live when they lose their father to jail and the income his job brought. Maybe there are a million different reason OTHER than race which could negatively affect their test score which most of the civilized world fail to realize could ever exist. Maybe underfunded schools and undiagnosed learning disabilities coupled with teenagehood, tight financial situations at home, and the overwhelming sensation that nothing they do could ever change anything about their horrible situation leave minorities somewhat behind in education, on average, once they leave high school.
Yes, Nikobashtai, we have thought of that. Socioeconomic differences cannot explain racial differences in academic achievement. From the article above:
Poor whites score better on standardized tests than wealthy blacks. In 2002, the average math SAT score of whites whose parents earned less than $10,000 was 497, but the average score of blacks whose parents earned $100,000 or more was 490. LSAT scores show the same pattern.
See also The Reality of Racial Differences.
Ian Jobling, i think that you have just committed a major error in presenting this study. because if you wanted to be consistent with your bell curve argument, then you would have disregarded that study. why? because you guys have argued that there is a strong correlation between income and iq, and you guys have also argued that whites are one standard deviation of 15 iq-points above blacks. now, it would not make sense for poor whites to be smarter than wealthy blacks unless your iq and income correlation is wrong, and that your 15-point-iq gap is absolutely underestimated. that study, without you realizing it, implies that there is no overlapping between the distinct intelligence bell curves of blacks and whites; Subsequently, it would imply that the very top of blacks are dumber than the very bottom of whites. even the most delusional white supremacist would not make that argument. keep in mind that i do not subscribe to these silly racial Iq games, but i have just wanted to show how inconsistent that you guys are in your arguments; and i do not think that you guys are pro-whites. i think that you guys are anti-non-whites. because being pro-white would force you to set charity organizations and educational tools to help poor whites in Appalachia, and deep south.
but here is another argument: I do not believe in racial affirmative action as it stands today. however I believe in some form of compensatory mechanisms for economically disadvantaged people. the true argument against affirmative action is not that it makes your degree worthless. that argument is non-sensical because one may enter with lower grades in medical school, but once in, one is not going to be given an easier midterm exams or a less difficult organic chemistry test. the affirmative recipient if he or she passes all her exams according to the school standards, then upon graduation, he or she will have earned his or her medical degree. the problem with the current system is that it may penalize some white folks who have always been disadvantaged themselves. also, in the affirmative argument here, many people apparently mistake ” maximal” for “optimal”. they are not the same things. having ten elements of the same background with the same set of cultural, and intellectual persuasions may be maximal in terms of mere IQ, but will not be optimal in terms of problem-solving skills.
john writes: “you guys have argued that there is a strong correlation between income and iq, and you guys have also argued that whites are one standard deviation of 15 iq-points above blacks. now, it would not make sense for poor whites to be smarter than wealthy blacks unless your iq and income correlation is wrong,”
The study Ian pointed to shows the math SAT results for poor whites to be 497 and for the CHILDREN of blacks earning greater than $100K/year to be 490. I have two observations.
(*) That difference is small, so if we use it as a proxy for IQ, it will probably be much less than 1 sigma.
(*) It was measuring the children of wealthy blacks. Given regression to the mean, I’d expect them to be “dumber” than their parents.
What the study really shows is that the additional wealth didn’t help the black kids to do any better versus much poorer whites. Their wage earning parents may well have high IQs, which enabled them to acquire wealth, but all that wealth didn’t help the kids since the genetics were lacking.
More information should be gathered. I wonder if the high wage earners (black) were male, for example, and had lower IQ spouses, on average. We’re still some ways from having a solid understanding, and more data would help.
John, I don’t think the argument is inconsistent at all, rather that you don’t reason well, or consider counterarguments. You should learn to argue the other side from yours in a debate, and dispense with the ad hominems and hyperbole displayed in your post above.
john writes: “you guys have argued that there is a strong correlation between income and iq, and you guys have also argued that whites are one standard deviation of 15 iq-points above blacks. now, it would not make sense for poor whites to be smarter than wealthy blacks unless your iq and income correlation is wrong,”
I thought that Gottfredson had found that when you adjust for IQ, blacks earn more than whites. In other words, through affirmative action, a person with a lower IQ could earn more than would normally be the case. This would also explain the lower performance by the children?
Hi
If the politics of AA is redress or transformation its intentions sound good.Balance in any society creates harmony.My major question is why is the AA policy implemented with a racial slant?It entrenches the whole idea of discrimination against a race group/s.In South Africa,race consciousness is a serious problem and AA is perceived as furthering racist policies.It is unhealthy in a country like SA to practise this form of reverse racism.Who created this idea of AA and was it genuinely successful in the short and long term? Or did it just create more racist thinking .In SA we cry for healing not more racism. Are there alternatives to solve the opportunities/jobs siutation or is AA the best transformatory tool ? I need your guidance/COMMENTS on this one. Thanks Hussein Mahomedy South Africa
Once I can hear a social scientist explain that their exists an ethnic or racial group that has undergone occupation, slavery, or restrictive movement for more than one hundred years which outperforms the occupier, slave owner, or capturer within the time span of a millenium then I will take that study seriously. The point is simple the long lasting deprivation of education reduces a group’s academic achievement potential.
Jews had a couple of thousand years of these conditions, yet still outperform everyone else on IQ tests. Let me note that until the 1960s, there was still some discrimination against Jews in the universities via the quota system. Yet Jews do not demand affirmative action.
For that matter, parts of Europe were “occupied” over the millenia by Huns, Arabs, Mongols, Turks and so forth. Yet European-Western civilization’s technological and scientific accomplishments set the standard for the rest of the world.
If “occupation” makes such a difference, then countries which have not been occupied very much — such as Afghanistan and Ethiopia — should be at the highpoint of development. Do I have to point out the absurdity of this statement?
In any event, why do you talk about “groups”? Has someone not informed you that “race is just a ‘construct’?” How could you possibly have any connection to people of a century or two ago simply because of the color of skin? Is that not (horrors!) racism?
Why not simply admit that IQ differences are real? There is no disgrace in that. Once we admit that IQ differences are real, we could conceivably implement programs to deal with the differences: perhaps different approaches in education. In any event, it would be better than continuing with the current charade.
Once I can hear a social scientist explain that their exists an ethnic or racial group that has undergone occupation, slavery, or restrictive movement for more than one hundred years which outperforms the occupier, slave owner, or capturer within the time span of a millenium then I will take that study seriously. The point is simple the long lasting deprivation of education reduces a group’s academic achievement potential.
Fiji is dominated by the descendants of slaves brought by the British from India. The Melanesian natives of Fiji were not enslaved; yet they remain today the lowest class. To a lesser extent you can see the same phenomenon of Indian Caucasoids ruling over blacks in Africa and South America. For example, the British brought Indian slaves into Kenya but never managed to enslave the native Kenyans; yet many descendants of those Indian slaves have remained in Kenya and today they are wealthier than the native Kenyans. In parts of South America, especially Suriname, black slavery was abolished in the 1800s only to be replaced by the importation of indentured servants from India, and today the Indians essentially run the nation. The Chinese and Japanese immigrants in the USA were not treated very well until about fifty years ago, but in fifty years they’ve climbed up and above even the white average in many states.
I use these examples because Californian already mentioned the even better examples of southern Europe leading the world despite having been occupied by Muslims and Jews succeeding despite being restricted by alien governments no matter where they went.
I’m gonna buy it! Too bad I can’t get liberals to read it!!